Assistance for installation
Solar Power Magic:
Dear friends, I am sure you all familiar with the solar power buy since I just installed one, thought some of us might need some basic info:
I put Rs 2.5 lacs system without batteries and to my surprise, I am running TWO 1.5 T Inverter Gree ACs, fridge. Some LED lights, couple of normal fan ( but looking forward to change also with DC powered fans). Both ACs can only be run together if one of them started 1st and run the second after 1st one brings amps down after 1st start.
ACs run the whole day till 17:00 hrs. In night one AC consumes 5-7 units from WAPDA. which is mere Rs 20307*2= 8,400 per month.
In fact during night no AC required as walls are cool and fan is just enough for the cool room which have been under AC for the whole day.
Controller is of two 3.6 KW rating and number of mono crystalline PERC technology 435 watts 9 no of solar plates at 15 degrees orientation at roof.
Very surprising: plates keep giving some 150 watts even 30 minutes past sunset. Same thing happening before sunrise!
If some friend is novice just as mine, I can post shots of my system to have some visual notes.
We can run iron as well if we switch off one AC while ironing.
Rt
I installed solar system at my home in Zaraj society about two years ago. The capacity was 3000 watts and also with battery backup. It cost me at that time about 4.5 lakhs.
In day time my house load almost run at solar with one AC running full time while other partly, with fridge, fans, lights etc of both floors.
During normal weather my electricity bill in the range of 3K to 5K while during summer it reaches about 11-13K as AC runs during night time at WPADA.
My childs are careless, so kept most of lights, fan running all the day.
The back-up battery system is sufficient to support the lights, fan, fridge etc for minimum 12 hours in case of WAPDA supply failure.
In fact it happened when underground cable busted and it took almost 15 hours to restore the supply, the batter work satisfactory during that period to supply the load. The batteries are dry type, maintenance free.
I have recently applied for NET Metering, lets see how much time it will take to complete the process
Thank you AQ sb for usual informative post. Solar is the way to go for a clean/efficient/cost-effective renewable energy. For sure, I look forward to see any visuals that you like to share. Just for my info, that you can clarify better for the rest:
-- May be a few years down the lane (2 - 3 years from now) can be right time for such solar units. As with time cost of such technology comes down, while efficiency goes up with more players entering the market?
-- What can be mechanism to protect on-roof equipment that seems fragile in case of anything hitting it for permanent or bigger damage?
-- On Avg. what can be %age of saving on electricity bill for residential units?
Imtiaz sb
Our system is " hybrid solar system". Other systems are " Net metering" & many more where with the help of energy reservoirs ( battery banks), you can do multiple choices of storing, consuming & selling energy to the WAPDA's supply grid. My neighbor's selling balance has reached to 60,000 Rs to cash back from WAPDA which took 6 month's of " reverse metering" in WAPDA account but this will make my reply longer. I will explain later.
Now back to the hybrid system which I have installed last month.
My system produces, cost 2.5 lacs, averagly about 1.8 KW ( 1.8 units in WAPDA terms) during peak sunshine hours at 0.8 power factor(efficiency), I am running one 1.5 ton split inverter AC, couple of fans, LED lights and one fridge.
30 minutes b4 sunrise my system starts pruding voltage and keeps doing 20 minutes post sunset at lower yield, of course plus occasional exhaust fand in bath rooms.
I also run my 2nd AC after the 1st already started and came down on pulling power and settled at about 500 watts( half unit). ACs gulp big Amps on initial startups, as you know.
At this point my all load online but if I need ironing, one AC needs to be stopped.
The whole day about 1.5 KW power is from solar panels and 1.5 being pulled from the the power domestic users. No WAPDA at all.
I stop ACs at 1700 hrs and my bedrooms have door closers. Now rooms are "yakh" cold and I again put my AC on at 2300 hrs, permanently thermostats set at 26 degree C.
My AC in this way consumes 5-7 Units of WAPDA energy for the night, which calculates at roughly 400 Units
Now costing:
Had I ran my all load on WAPDA, my bill would have been minimum Rs 22+22k= Rs 44,000 but now I am paying to WAPSA less than Rs 9,000 with cooling luxury.
I have also connected my old UPS batteries as a tiny backup which keeps illuminating my lights for couple of hours if wapda fails.
I am warmly looking forward to switch over to " net metering" and earnings money as I am retired and came back home last week.
But wapda needs at least 5.5 KW system for approval. It costs Rs 7 lacs and you can earn on average, as per my friend, Rs 12 000 per month. Rs 12000 per month means you have invested Rs 24 Lacs for a rental property!
I have full log of my wapda meter which is 100% confirming my savings.
Had best exercise having 50s of trip to my solar controller to see how much am I getting from panels and how much from the wapda?
Net Metering takes all energy from wapda but makes your electrical as " Zero" but b4 you buy a system, you need to calculate your full yearly based load and then come up with system order.
Bottom line of my 2.5 lacs system is, I am under Rs 10,000 per month with a luxurious cooling and managing my other power users in home, too.
My Gree ACs have heating system, too, which will give me heat energy in winter also.
In winter my solar engineer told me that " mono crystalline panels" run on better power factor, which I need to confirm In Shaa Allah in winter.
Having said all above, natural calamities can damage how much , I do not know but heavy rain is so far just fine, in fact it is improving panel yield as dust is an electrical resistance, we all know of.
Now it is night but in day I will share visuals of my system on google.
I clean my panels with ultra soft wiper in " night" only when panels are not producing any energy!
Sorry for some spelling mistakes as it is now pain to edit my own long reply!
Extension:
My system design output is 2,300 KW, which means 2.3 Units per hour Production but I averaged it at 1.5 on cloudy weather at times.
I am frequently witnessing my solar controller producing 2.0 KW at peak of the day.
Cannot wait to install 9 KW system to make smooth earning at least Rs 15,000 per month!
Learned forumers, pls share your experiences.
Natural calamities, such as hailing can of course damage cells but then lightening risk is also there and we do not mind going outside during rain?
But I am sure, popular the system is becoming, insurance factor is just inevitable!
Good thread, I am very much interested in solar power systems. My next investment would be in installing solar power at home, but information available is limited.
To me, installing solar is more of a social responsibility than saving money. I mean, you can have both benefits, so why not.
Isloo1 sb
Agreed to your comment on social responsibility. I think even if we become self sufficient on power Production in our country, we need huge resources to deliver energy on Wapda feeders!
Presently rain improves 5 to 7% power delivery on our old HV power lines right after rains which cleans dust and reduces resistance.
I am rather sure, if well offs keep installing solar systems, we can break even on load shedding at some point of time in near future.
I am not well conversant in English as you do but with visual support, I might make up my point better.
Thank AQ sb for detailed analysis that for sure increases my interests and help getting to know better about these systems.
Looking forward to more worthy suggestions!!
@Abdul Qayyum,
Indeed, augmenting national power production/distribution capacity by individual efforts is one good reason, however, my point of social responsibility is more for environmental reasons. The amount of CO2 we are producing by burning fossil fuel is simply unforgivable.
Why do we burn so much coal, oil & gas to produce electricity to run our A/Cs. why can't we draw it from clean sources like sun and air?
Why do we burn so much natural gas to heat up water, while a very simple thermal-solar geyser can cut it down by half?
Why do we spend millions on aesthetics of the house and zero on making it environment-friendly?
Why do we produce so much plastic and scatter it in nature?
Will our next generations forgive us -- a greedy and irresponsible generation.
Wapda refunding money, as per one of my friend who install the similar system to add in wapda grid mentioned that wapda do not refund money but they keep your credit and you may utilize in rainy season or days when you do not produce sufficient power.
Yes fully agreed very important for any new development to have provision of solar power not only for saving money only but for our nature as well.
@Isloo1
Rightly said, env aspect probably exceeds among all others. We can also look forward to harness irrigation water flow energy for power supply on localized distribution plus underground cooling/heat (we know basement temp is always constant, only we feel cool during summer and hot during winter) of earth can be utilized for homes. I have seen in abroad. They run in-house water circulation based system to keep house warm by circulating water through the 40 feet underground capillary based water circulation manifold. The small tubing net arrangement increases the " surface area to catch max underground geo thermal warmth"
Anothet brainstorming, happening to me regarding energy saving in basement utilisation:
These two humidity months, basement temperature as I said b4, is unchanged but what we feel hot is the dew point elevation because of humidity.
If we keep only one 1T Inverter AC at 26 degrees and let the AC to condense humidity and keep throwing outside the basement, can be maintained at 40% humidity and AC's compression cycles would reduce considerably reducing power consumption and bill.
@Suhail sb
You are right, I have seen wapda bill amounting Rs 60,000 to get back from wapda but it will be adjusted in bill account only, no cash reimbursement.
The best part is, you get totally free energy from wapda as your solar is keeping selling to wapda and you are getting all what you require from the national grid. I am exploring a 5 KW net meeting system as I need to install only 3 solar panels more, may be 4. If wapda does not return cash, still huge saving by putting one-off sum and then getting 1000s in return.
Same is true for heating in winter if you install dual type Inverter ACs.
Mono crystalline solar panels which even work better in winter. As per solar engineer, solar yield can reach above 90% in winter. As per him he has seen this in Muzzafabad when he installed a system there.
Dear AQ sb,
Many thanks for detailed knowledge sharing as usual.
Just for my curiosity to take further first hand update from your wealth of knowledge, I remember once you was busy in Canada and Turkish related investment but now again I see you involved more in locally.
Please if you do not mind sharing information on the other two part of the worlds and experience if any you would like to express.
@AQ and Asadullah,
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. As buying and installing solar system is not straightforward, I would appreciate if you could also share information on products, specifications, and providers. For example, a lot depends on solar panel quality and material. So please educate us and share any reading pointers too.
Who are reliable providers in Pakistan. Any informed reviews on their products and service quality would be of great value.
Dear Sohail, Turkey is in deep turmoil, its currency is on a massive landslide, so probably this is the best time to invest in real estate for citizenship. However, two caveats: 1) their prime property (mostly in Istanbul) is indexed to dollar by the market forces, so depreciating TRY does not help you gain much. And rental yield is barely 3%, subtract taxes and maintenance and you get nothing.
Second, Pakistan has still not signed dual-citizenship treaty with Turkey, though it has been agreed in principle, but not formally signed as yet.
Nonetheless, it is better to invest in Turkey and Pakistan than in the lands of jewish new friends... you know what I mean.
Dear Suhail
I had tiring work of Turkey investment and got deep inside as I had opportunity to mingle with Turks because my nephew is marrying a Turkish girl. But I declined and Iskoo1 explained most of it. I shall add language barrier as well plus my age, too, is a factor in this juncture.
Secondly my son family been shifted to Canada where doing business ( non property related as Canada stands now, with gigantic money piles being moved from world around and Chinese investments in flocks affecting prices sky high), Pak goods bzness with Canada is what I am looking forward right now, In Shaa Allah.
I have seen in Canada nobody can stop/hinder your initiatives making money if you are lucky to get items moved outside from the mouths of currupt signatories doing paper work.
Turkish lira is red marked with USA, Europe also
@Isloo1
1st of all our mistakes in the solar system:
I selected Longi company for solar panels as they installed multi million solar project in Qatar but I was not in Pak and my bro who in spite of the fact holds a Master Degree in IT, was so busy in my construction bzness that he done following mistakes:
A...Energy transmission from panels to the inverter must be of thicker dia cable to run max amperes to home.
B...The controller, money was saved as panels can provide 3.25 KW but inverter has a bottleneck of 2.0 KW.
We bought 9 panels each giving 435 watt, cost us Rs 43 per Watt.
*** Best news now panels are coming to Pak having 600 Watt: yes! 600 Watt per panel and on less prices, too**
C...12 years guarantee on panel performance:
1...First year max 2% decline on panel yield...in fact it will be 1.2 to 1.5 but you calculate 2%.
2...Future years up to 25 years it will be 0.5 % per year decline.
D...Cabadian panels most durable but need extra money.
E...As per our working, Inverex and Tesla Inverters are best but my brother who only thought my no- salary retirement, bought Fronus which is good in medium range but not the best one.
Having all said above, I am running one 1.5 T inverter split AC, about 15 LED lights in house, one 1000 watt iron, two exhaust fans and washing machine( but iron must be stopped then). This goes up to 16:00 hrs.
Then in chilly room fan comes on and I do not need AC, if I do, I consume only 5-7 Units in night. My full month bill is staying around 380 to 450 units per month but with proper training to kids, further saving could be done.
But moral of story is:
" Net metering...net metering...
Where your bill is big " Zeero" having luxury life both for cooling as well as for heating in winter"
My visuals ready but may be tomorrow In Shaa Allah.
@ Assadullah: Thanks for your input. This is Sadqa e Jaria to save Env, for our country and for all of us.
AQ sb. I always found your posts super informative and beneficial for everybody without any personal gain. This is I believe a very big sadqa and a great service. In fact, I see sincerity and truth in your posts, be it real estate, construction advice, locations recommendations or this altogether a new valuable advice, which is the need of every person.
I would only say God bless you. And I wish I meet you someday also just to convey my 1 tiny grievance when you sometime seem supporting IK (now proven unjustly).
Thanks very much Inamulla sb for the good words.
I have firm belief that if you advise someone at the best of your honesty and someone benefits out of it, this cascades and you keep getting Ajar all along the time one keeps benefitting from your advice.
Sir, regarding IK, I thought he is the last and only hope as we have experienced the main parties but I am believing that he,too, is with the system.
Our motherland is not barren with fertile minds and why he cannot find better intellect and and got himself stuck with filthy n corrupts?
Sir, see our " Ulemas", yesterday they met that lier Marium, assuring she was attacked whereas who attacked whom?
Sir, IK must complete his tenure and we must judge him after his term.
جہاں تک پاکستان کی بات ہے اسے خدا چلا رہا ہے کہ اسی کے نام ہر حاصل کیا تھا۔
I am now hopeless, Judges corrupt, police corrupt, baboos currupt,....indications also go to somewhere else as well":;?&&
It seems economy is seeing some light from the other side if dark tunnel, let us pray, Pakistan being highly instrumental in the prevailing international scenario, plays mindfully and get help from the ones who are able to deliver!
But who? Dawood, Gujratees, chaoudri who is the " Technology minister"?
We are in ocean of corruption and under the heavy hands of currupt cartel.
Having said all above, IK must be given time, otherwise Nawaz and brother/sister: Bilawal is there to serve the country!!!!!**&&&
Thank you all for your valuable inputs and specifically AQ sb for all the energy to share technical details which keeps me interested to keep getting back to this topic. Just a few questions:
-- In PAK who are reliable sources to get these? Any licensed or competitive companies doing this? Any particular Solar Panel supplier company with good quality?
-- Also, any one with idea about prices and throughput of such panels in last 2 years and now? I mean generally such technology evolves quite rapidly with prices going down and efficiency goiung up?
Anyone who may have idea about any pricing or technical upgrades in last few years. I see in coming 2+ years more demand for these and ultimately more players entering with better and more economic, systems. I guess once relatively stable, may be the best time to get one??